The Damning Myth of Spoken Word Radio: High Time Spent Listening (TSA) and Low Cume
By Walter Sabo
Consultant, Sabo Media
A.K.A. Walter Sterling
Radio Host, “Sterling On Sunday”
Talk Media Network
Dependency upon a PPM panel to deliver high time spent listening is a bad business model. Would you rather count on one person listening for one hour or four people listening for 15 minutes? Right.
A good music format program director knows exactly how to program talk radio in a PPM environment. Oddly, when a music programmer has the privilege of programming a talk station they seem to forget all of their programming knowledge. Both formats are measured by exactly the same technology and therefore if it “works” in music, it works in talk.
The reason “New Jersey 101.5” quickly became the highest cuming FM talk station in the world – for 20+ years – is because when Bob McAllan, Jay Sorensen, Perry Simon, John Dziuba and I designed it, we had a simple process: Build a music station that takes a lot of phone calls. It was always programmed like a top 40 station and 33 years later it obviously worked.
The reason “Real Radio 104.1 in Orlando” was the only Howard Stern station that did not suffer the expense of having to change format when he was recruited to SiriusXM Satellite Radio was because the station was built as a heavily formatted music station that took a lot of phone calls. Note that Real Radio 104.1 and New Jersey 101.5 both air music non-stop on the weekends for the single purpose of targeting a specific cume demographic. It obviously worked.
What are the key elements of a music format that should be applied to talk in order to build cume?
- Please, god, don’t flag the “breaks.”
- Every show had a specific pace based on topic set up time and call length time which gave the station a consistent rhythm and sound. All day.
- No “records” from home! No personal sound effects, jingles or that crap.
- Constantly sell ahead. No yesterday calls, yesterday references. Sell what’s next.
- Assume every single listener just tuned in. Explain the topic and give the phone number obsessively.
- Listener driven not host driven. Every host is valuable and gifted but if a host makes the mistake of quitting, the interest needs and tastes of the listener are constant and can be reflected by the next host. A constant.
Mickey Luckoff, the brilliant president of KGO, San Francisco for decades explained why he hired most of his hosts from top 40 radio because, “I can teach them TALK but I can’t teach them radio.” BTW yes, even 34-year morning host Jim Dunbar worked at WLS and KQV as a top 40 jock immediately before joining KGO to host a talk show.
Walter Sabo was a pioneer in the concept of targeted talk which allows a station to precisely reach a chosen demographic. He has had a robust list of consulting clients including, SiriusXM Satellite Radio, Conde Naste, CBS, Press Broadcasting, RKO General, Hearst, Fred Silverman Productions, and many more. His company HITVIEWS was the first major player to recognize and monetize online video stars known as “influencers.” He is on the nominating board of the Radio Hall of Fame. Reach him at 646.678.1110 or walter@sabomedia.com. Discover Sabo’s network radio show here: waltersterlingshow.com.
work. In a Westword profile, Tubbs talks about his ascent in the news business, his plans for the “final chapter” of his working life, and his current film project about the deadly drug fentanyl. Locally, Tubbs has caused controversy with his 2020 documentary, Denver in Decay. About that film, Tubbs tells Westword, “That documentary kind of put me on the map as being one of the most hated media members by local politicians in Colorado in recent memory, and I embrace that. But with all the hate and praise, the one thing no one has ever said is that Denver in Decay is inaccurate. You can say all you want if you don’t like the messaging, but you can’t attack the accuracy or the credibility.” 
Westwood One’s “Dan Bongino Show” and the “Chris Plante Show,” plus Ben Shaprio and FNC’s Guy Benson. KTUC program director Herb Crowe states, “We’re thrilled to unveil ‘Freedom 1400,’ Tucson’s Conservative Talk Station. As we embark on this exciting journey, we’re committed to providing a platform for open dialogues, diverse viewpoints, and robust discussions that matter to our community. With our esteemed lineup of talk show hosts, we’re confident that ‘Freedom 1400’ will become an essential source of information and insight for our listeners.”
“The Daily” ranked #1 (based on unique U.S. monthly audience). NBC News’ “Dateline NBC” came in #3 and NPR’s “NPR News Now” was #4. The lone talk radio personality whose podcast landed in Podtrac’s Top 20 was Dan Bongino. His Cumulus Podcast Network show ranked #11.
on August 8 during the organization’s annual convention. Among the three 2023 inductees is former talk radio personality and current classical music KVNO-FM, Omaha morning host Otis Twelve. His radio career began in 1973 and in 1993 he became morning host at news/talk KFAB, Omaha. He served as a talk host on crosstown KKAR, Omaha from 1999 through 2001. He also served as a movie critic for TV stations KETV and then KPTM from 1984 to 1996.
platforms. He says this year there are attendees from 47 states coming to the sold-out program. Erickson says, “This is the tenth of these I have done, and I have to thank Charlie, my producer, for doing so much of the heavy lifting while I have concentrated on doing my show. The format for each individually named speaker is a conversation on stage with me asking them questions from the attendees. The attendees will shortly receive a survey link where they can submit questions for me to incorporate into the conversations. The theme of the conference this year is ‘Forward: Which Way.’” 
living in the state of Nevada. The native Iowan was beloved by WHO Radio listeners and colleagues. He was known nationally for his thought-provoking talk show and on-air debates, but also for sharing information about local severe weather and other urgent news relevant to his listeners. Mickelson was known for tackling serious topics but was equally appreciated by his devoted listeners for providing much joy and humor with his infectious laughter.” iHeartMedia Des Moines market president Joel McCrea adds, “Jan Mickelson was the best at his craft. He was always prepared and knew how to get you to listen to the radio. If you disagreed with him, he would take your call first because he wanted a spirited conversation. All of us at WHO miss Jan Mickelson.”
format phases including a full color magazine and eventually a daily online operation geared to providing news, advice and opinions to professionals involved in programming, managing, marketing and operating an array of related platforms in what has come to be known as talk media. This includes most popular forms of spoken-word AM and FM radio, plus online programming, podcasting, cable television and satellite broadcasting. During this period, TALKERS has produced and presented 26 national conventions in New York and another three in Los Angeles. Add to that more than 35 regional, national and international forums about the field and countless radio rows including several at the White House in conjunction with both the Bill Clinton and George W. Bush administrations. TALKERS remains and will continue to be a non-partisan proponent of the First Amendment with a great love and passion for talk media’s roots in the century old medium of radio.
“During the past decade, I’ve absolutely fallen in love with the people of Central Virginia. This community has been so welcoming to my family and I cherish having the chance to help out a bit by serving as an advocate for special needs kids, saluting our law enforcement officers, and sharing vital news and information.” Audacy Virginia SVP and market manager Bennett Zier comments, “Jeff is a great citizen of Virginia and continues to be an important part of the WRVA family.”
In the early 1980s, talk radio made a $4 billion mistake. Prior to then, there were approximately 50 full-time talk stations in America. They were predominantly found in major markets and had been in the format since Marconi. The original talk stations had two key traits: They were dominant in ratings and much of their popularity was driven by women hosts.
Then Mary Margaret read live copy. OR Mary Margaret had her guests read live copy. Sales for advertisers exploded. (Source: It’s One O’ Clock, Time for Mary Margaret McBride by Susan Ware 
tours that provide a significant revenue stream for stations (or syndicators) as well as world-wide free travel for their top personalities. Collette is planning a major presence at TALKERS 2023 tomorrow (6/2) at the 26th annual sold-out installment of the talk media industry conference at Hofstra University on Long Island. Jim Edwards, VP, US affinity development (
